Former preacher, John W. Loftus, said he was troubled by this thought: "If you were born in Saudi Arabia, you would be a Sunni Muslim right now. This is an almost undeniable, cold hard sociological and cultural fact. If you were born in India, you'd be Hindu right now. If you were born in Japan, you'd be a Shintoist, and if you lived in Mongolia, you'd be a Buddhist. If you were born in the first century BCE in Israel, you'd adhere to the Jewish faith at that time, and if you were born in 1200 CE, you'd be a Roman Catholic. These things are as close to being undeniable facts in the sociological world." First, are his observations are true? Second, why do you think this caused him to question Christianity? Thanks for the answers! I should disclose that I've taken this quote somewhat out of context. The author's main thesis was that culture greatly (almost overwhelmingly) influences one's religion. Despite the boldness of this particular passage, his claim isn't that culture determines religion, 100%, no exceptions, like a natural law of the universe. This may or may not have an impact on your responses, but just to be fair to the author...
Religion & Spirituality - 16 Answers
Random Answers, Critics, Comments, Opinions :
1 :
His statements are probably true for the most part. Percentages won't lie to you. I don't understand what this has to do with his leaving Christianity though?
2 :
Yes I do think his observations are true otherwise every religion would be more or less equally spread across the world which clearly isn't the case. Religion, for most people, is simply an accident of birth.
3 :
Obviously because your geographical location determines what faith you are. Therefore many people don't have the opportunity to "know christ" and therefore will be sent to hell. How could a god damn the majority of his creations by default?
4 :
I don't see how the above has anything to do with him leaving Christianity
5 :
No it is not true. Though maybe one is born into a religion, God draws them to him. No one can come to Jesus unless God draws him to him. So you could be born a muslim or whatever, but when you become an adult you have a choice to make. God draws men near to Christ but they have to accept the invitation. They have that choice in their adult life. Some kids are forced in religion but God will draw them to Jesus. Its their choice rather or not to believe. Also know that many will be spared before Christ's second coming. Many unbelievers will praise God after they see the great signs that come upon the earth. So even if one was a muslim for his whole life and witnessed these events, he could still be saved. Maybe he questioned christianity because he just had good questions that are hard to answer?
6 :
Yeah, they are all kinda true. This led him to the conclusion that religion isn't about free will, and it is instead about what your society forces on you. What you are expected to believe as a truth. Some foreign schools even teach a certain religion as truth. If you look at countries like America, things are different because the government takes no part in forcing religion on people. Therefore, many different religions are allowed to prosper and argue with each other over who is right. Being born here doesn't guarantee that you will adhere to any particular faith. Its because religion is forced on people that people like him and I start to question them.
7 :
I agree and it would make him question his beliefs because he came to see them for what they are--a product of his culture and upbringing, nothing more.
8 :
I think those observations are quite accurate. If I had to guess, it caused him to question Christianity, or any religion for that matter, because he bascially distilled faith down to a matter of geography. That could be a very hard revelation for a man of faith, a preacher no less, to accept.
9 :
Sure, his observation is true. We tend to do what our families primarily do. If that caused him to question Christianity, he isn't aware of what Christianity was all about. At its core, it's a vertical relationship with God and US, through Christ. It doesn't matter what anyone else does or doesn't do.
10 :
No, it's not true. That is a huge generalization by people who have probably never travelled. There are majorities in every country, but there are plenty of other religions going on. There are several reasons these people are not open about their faith though, especially in countries where Christianity is not allowed. Also, if you go to regions like india, people have simply never heard of anything else. But when a church is planted in an area like this, the church grows a lot faster than in places like the US. From my experiences in India and asia, there are more people willing to change their religion to christianity than in the western world. Another huge part is that there are so many people that only consider their religion as part of their culture. If you ask someone from Latin America, they will probably say they're catholic. But if you ask them deep questions about their faith, they might not know how to answer. In India I was at a temple where people were worshipping snakes, and someone told me that very few of the people actually believe in the gods they are worshipping, they simply do it because that's their culture and tradition. I would not call them people of Hindu faith, but people of a Hindu society.
11 :
they can be true, but not always.... as if you are a part of a certain religion only because of your upbringing i never would have left Christianity. not to mention the son of a Hamas leader became a Christian not to long ago..
12 :
The opinion is not necessarily true. Certainly if you were born in these areas you would be exposed to the various religions named, however this does not allow for the migration of people of different faiths. It also excludes the results of proselyting. Sounds to me like he was justifying his loss of faith by overlooking the opportunities Christianity has of making inroads in these areas of the world.
13 :
Of course, if you were born at the present time in the western nations, who knows what you would be...? I would also say that it is most likely that where you are born will influence your beliefs. Japan, probably, not so much with the Shinto. In Muslim nations, definitely. Muslims are oppressive when it comes to their belief systems. India, well I had a youth Pastor friend who was born and raised in India, so I wouldn't say it's a guarantee. Honestly, this issue doesn't raise any doubt within me whatsoever. Perhaps this man allowed his own reasoning and cultural beliefs of fairness to erode his faith.
14 :
Some Christians believe all are saved;; "Christ died for the sins of the whole world". I doubt his statement alone would cause him to give up on his faith, must be other things.
15 :
How are things 11T? Mr. Loftus' overly generous generalizations make his statement an easy target. If you were born in Saudi Arabia you'd be expected to be a Muslim - the social pressures seem to be intense. How many Saudi Muslims 'are' Sunni in name, but in fact hold the beliefs of a Shiite? How many Shiites hold the beliefs of a Sunni? How accurate is a poll of the Saudi population when the Saudi Constitution declares the country a Muslim state, and any other religious belief is technically illegal? If you convert to any other religion in Saudi Arabia you can recieve the death penalty. How many atheists, agnostics and Christians choose to hunker down, not saying anything? So, in this environment, where publicly claiming any other faith is illegal, how factual are John W. Loftus' observations? I'd say he is not accurate here, and wouldn't be with any other religious generalizations concerning our present time. And with respect to the first century BCE in Israel, he is just factually wrong. The Roman Cults, Mithras and the various Jewish sects are known now to be part of everyday life. I'm guessing there were pagans and other believers in Molech, Tanit, Ba'al, etc. With Mr. Loftus' miss on this point, I'm sure given a bit more time it wouldn't be too difficult in showing him wrong with regards to Japan. I'm guessing his comment on Catholicism is regarding Western Europe, exclusively. How many pagan systems were functional in this time frame? It only makes sense that Mr. Loftus' statements concerning folks who've been dead for +100 to +1,000 years will likely be wrong, given his statements concerning current religious norms. It looks like a Fallacy of Accident and/or Reverse Accident. It sounds like his views lead him to believe the only reason he was a Christian was because everyone around him was as well. He happened to be born in a time when everyone was a Christian, this being the sole reason for his 'faith'. So our society tricked him, not only into believing this stuff, but actually preaching it! I'm not sure if its funny or sad. ----------------------- Edit: I'm not sure that the authors view regarding the % influence society has changes his anything all that much. It makes no difference in my view if the reason for your faith was societies influence at a 5%, 45% or 100% rate, you're still a Leming. I'll bet there is at least one Christian in every country on earth, where the population may or may not be dominated by Christians. Societal norms don't explain the reason for believers in North Korea or China - and both countries have growing underground churches. The author has taken a rather shallow, ill-informed view of his previously professed faith. If this line of thought is the reason for his questions about his faith, the poor guy hadn't exercised his gray matter adequately.
16 :
"First, are his observations are true?" yea, they're mostly true. obviously there are exceptions to the rule, but there's still the general rule, and these stats are basically undeniable. He says it like they're facts, but really they're just really really likely to be true. "Second, why do you think this caused him to question Christianity?" I guess it messed with his belief about free will. he recognized that not everyone has an equal shot at becoming a christian. my guess is that he believed nonChristians went to hell and this isn't fair if your religion is largely determined by where and when God decided you would be born. I realized the same thing, but i concluded that God didn't send nonChristians to hell. he decided there was no god.
Read more discussions :
